木曜日, 11月 10, 2005

My Tools

Amida asks me about my tools, online resources and the like. What am I using for this translation, exactly?

Well, today in Mito after another pointless and much begrudged ALT meeting, I went to Kawamata Shoten to pick up 平家物語 Heike Monogatari, which I've wanted to start reading in the original for a while. Of course I found it in the ubiquitous high school study aids section. Which raises a related point.

I first thought of Classical Japanese like Latin, which I majored in. The dead ancestor of a robust modern tongue whose speakers need special training to decipher it, kept alive by the flowering of culture it knew in its heyday as a spoken medium. The little I was able to find on it in the States sort of affirmed this view. There was the translated grammar of Ikeda, and a newer work by Akira and someone else I can't recall now. I assumed, not too far-fetchedly, that these were the tip of an iceberg awaiting me in the original when the Jet program finally bought me a ticket here. I was wrong.

When I first got here, I spent many a Tokyo afternoon after a long train ride from Ibaraki scouring bookstores on my own and pestering polite but annoyed store attendants to find this imputed treasure trove. Over and over again I was merely taken to the same high school study aids section I went to today. After a while I had to realize the truth: that despite it being a sort of natural cultural treasure, the classical language of Japan is by far and large mostly the preoccupation of high school students forced to study it for their entrance examinations.

I knew it was a compulsory subject before I came here, but I was sure I'd find more scholarly works as well. A grammar, I thought, the world for just one thick weapon-sized grammar. But...you just can't find them in bookstores. I persist in believing they do exist, and I know there are scholars of the langauge as such, not just as a vehicle for literature, but you can't get your hands on their works at even the biggest bokstores of the capital.

A lot of reasons for this, of course. Lack of customers, obviously, lack of consumers for the stuff. Though there certainly is a large body of available work ON classical literature to be had. And the texts are easily available through Iwanami bunko at prices to make the Western Classicists weep. Imagine: Homer for five bucks! Agh!
But I think it mianly comes down to the fact that for all the world of pain that the study is for high school kids, it really is much closer to modern Japanese than Latin to English, or even its own contemporary Italian. Or Ancient to Modern Greek for that matter. Or Old English to Modern. It takes training to learn to read, true, but I've come to feel that for actual readers and consumers of the Classical Japanese past, it's close enough not to merit a mediating scholarly apparatus in the form of grammars and the like. When I read it, I know it feels like I'm retranslating it into Modern Japanese terms in my head, though that's dangerous at times, where I assume the current meaning for an originally very different word.

So what do I do? Well, I line up with the kids and buy the same odd vocabulary books with machine-gun toting anime characters, "grammars" by "Madonna", which in Japanese terms means something like "attractive vibrant young woman", here referring to a teacher, and most of all, most of all, the texts annotated for grammar line by line that I've come to love. It's using them that has taught me what I know of the language for the most part.

And this, along with the Iwanami Bunko version based on the Fujiwara Teika text of Sarashina Nikki, with help from the various pieces of my garishly illustrated collection, is what I am using for this project.

12 Comments:

At 5:45 午前, Blogger amida said...

It's funny you say that because I was thinking of classical Japanese as being like Latin or Sanskrit, too. I am heartened to hear that you believe it can be read--someday perhaps I will be able to look at one of these texts without first surrounding myself with charts.
It is a shame that in Asian schools (or Western ones, for that matter) these kinds of things have all the life driven right out of them by dull teaching methods. That said, at this point I am pretty happy to have these kind of marked-up study aid texts. Hopefully one day the training wheels will come off.
I was hoping to find electronic resources because I find them so much easier to work with, and because I usually have to look up (modern) words in the kobun dictionary's definitions. I translate Chinese into English occasionally, and I don't remember the last time I used a paper dictionary. Japan seems to be in the dark ages (the 1990s?) on this front.

 
At 7:04 午前, Blogger Azuma said...

Well, you don't have to use paper, but it'll cost you. Get an electronic dictionary that has 広辞苑 Kojien in addition to a 古語 dictionary. They run about 15000円 here, sometimes less. I got my Japanese pocket dictionary at Sakura, a Japanese bookstore in Boston. I don't know where you are, but in New York or Chicago as well there should be similar offerings. And then there's always mail. I think it's better than an online dictionary, since you can bring it anywhere.

But yeah, the heavuly marked-up study aids are a godsend in the absence of other easily available things.

 
At 1:13 午後, Blogger amida said...

I am connected pretty much everywhere I work, so I don't mind using web-based stuff. I also use Google as a giant corpus a lot--much better than dictionaries for modern stuff.
My Ex-Word electronic dictionary is invaluable, too. I have the English-Chinese-Japanese one with a "superjump" function that allows me the (slightly cumbersome) workaround of looking up a kanji by its Chinese pronunciation, hoping it's used in Japanese in a similar way, and jumping from it to the J-E dictionary to get the yomikata. With kobun, I am getting a lot of use out of its Kojien dictionary, and jumping from parts of the definition to the J-E. It doesn't have a Kogo dictionary, but the Kojien saves me from having to pull out my paper dictionary too often.

 
At 4:48 午後, Blogger IbaDaiRon said...

...it really is much closer to modern Japanese than Latin to English, or even its own contemporary Italian...close enough not to merit a mediating scholarly apparatus in the form of grammars and the like.

That was my impression as well back when I was actively studying it. Disregarding the changes in pronunciation, it's amazing how much of the old language survives. (I wonder how much of a role the bungo tradition has played in this.)

What Heike did you get, by the way?

I believe this the first time you've mentioned being in good ole Ibaraki! Kenboku, ken'ou, kensei, kennan? (How was Bob's presentation, by the way?)

 
At 9:21 午後, Blogger Azuma said...

Yikes, what a small world! Apologies to your friend, but I actually arrived late enough to miss most of his presentation, though what I got of it was a pleasant change from the morning passive lecture format I was expecting. And I'm in Kensei, which is why I was late, sigh.

I bought the 古典新訳シリーズ Heike. You know, the ones with the awful orange and green stripe pattern on the front designed to make learning CJ as unpleasant-seeiming as possible. For all the culture of color arrangement in the ol' Heian days, it's a shame they get such garish packaging, but what can you do?

 
At 9:35 午後, Blogger Azuma said...

>Amida

Ha! I did the same thing when I visited Taiwan this summer, only backwards. I'd see signs for, I think, 魯肉飯, and have to look up the first character in Japanese in my Seiko's kanji dictionary, only to then realize too late I should have remembered that from Lu Xun. My entire trip there was like a long conversation with an old, dear friend seen again after long separation, where you're constantly realizing you should have known the answers to half the questions you ask, but always too late to stop yourself from asking in the first place.

Still, seriously. Can you imagine the pain of such searches without an electronic dictionary? I shudder to think back to the dark days when it took me two dictionaries to look up a word starting with an unfamiliar kanji. I don't even think my laptop comes near the value of the money I spent on that dictionary. (Now sadly finally feeling its age and in need of replacing)

 
At 10:37 午後, Blogger Matt said...

Yeah, 広辞苑 + 古語 is the ultimate electronic dictionary combination. I only wish that I'd sprung for a model that had the Iwanami kogo dictionary in it (if such a thing exists).

It occurs to me that maybe the reason there isn't really anything except for stuff aimed at high schoolers and stuff aimed at professional academics (with horrific price tags to match) is because the high schooler stuff is...well, enough. Especially when it comes to teaching the grammar. If you're motivated and can proceed at your own pace, some of those books are actually pretty good.

 
At 2:24 午前, Blogger amida said...

I have a very nice book from Taiwan that indexes Japanese kanji by Chinese pinyin. It's my fallback for when a kanji means something too different from its Chinese usage to be included in the Japanese definition in the C-J dictionary. (Why do they bother with these entries in C-J that are the same compound with a "suru" added?) There must be a reverse equivalent, where you could use pronunciation instead of actually counting up the strokes.

The Chinese material for learning Japanese that I've seen is pretty disappointing. It is based on that same rote memorization that these Japanese high school texts you mentioned do. The upside is everyone seems to be able to effortlessly memorize tons of information. The downside is they miss out on the general patterns, which they could have learned a lot faster. I was hoping to find books that said something like "The following Chinese characters which are pronounced 'jing1' are pronounced 'kei' in Japanese:...." but to no avail.

I hope you had a nice visit to Taiwan. I love the scruffy little place--it appeals to me for very different reasons than does Japan. Taipei is like a second home to me, while Kyoto is a third.

Mmmmmm... 魯肉飯....

 
At 5:56 午後, Blogger Azuma said...

Yeah, I actually saw the reverse equivalent at a bookstore once, though I couldn't afford it at the time. It was a pretty shoddily made book, too.

I did, however, have the reverse impression about Japanese study aids. When I studied in Beijing for a semester, I was overwhelmed with joy at how big the sections on Japanese study were compared to the bookstores in America. Most weren't very creative, I'll grant, but the sheer amount of grammatical explanations and examples was awesome. I still have in my bookshelf a little volume I love called "日语惯用句型表现手册" which is just six hundred pages of illustrative examples for about the same number of sentence patterns. So well-read it has its own special smell.

And I loved Taiwan. Most of my time was spent in Jiayi and surrounds, but Taipei was so charming when I got there I almost regretted avoiding it to begin with.

 
At 6:18 午後, Blogger Azuma said...

Matt> What kogo dictionary do you have in yours, and how does it come up short? Probably this Christmas I'll replace my slowly dying but dearly beloved out-of-production model for a new dictionary that includes a 古語辞典 as well.

 
At 1:35 午前, Blogger amida said...

I love the stuff available in Japan for studying Japanese, especially the guides put out for studying for the nouryoku shiken. They are really well-designed. And I loved Nihongo Journal, though I hear it's not around anymore or has changed its target audience to teachers of Japanese or something. I never managed to find anything, in Taiwan or in Japan, that was so cleverly put together and aimed at Chinese speakers.

As for the dictionaries, I have discovered that through the magic of Unicode and Jim Breen, I can directly input Chinese into the WWWJDIC and get the Japanese yomikata and its definition (provided, of course, that the characters are written the same in both languages).

 
At 11:28 午前, Blogger Matt said...

The one in my electronic dictionary is the 三省堂全語読解古語辞典(第二版) and while it does have its good points (being aimed at learners i.e. high school students, it includes common combinations of 助動詞, 助詞 etc. so that you don't have to puzzle them out before looking them up, and it also has a lot of famous tanka in it, which is neat), it doesn't go into the etymological detail that the Iwanami one does. And I love etymology, and it helps me remember stuff when I can see how it fits into everything else.

The downside to this is that the Iwanami provides so much detail that, due to the nature of historical linguistics, sometimes it asserts controversial things, and sometimes newer research proves it wrong (I hear; I'm nowhere near well-read enough to verify this for myself).

 

コメントを投稿

<< Home